Comments on: Faceoff: Designers vs. Copywriters http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/ atLarge, Inc. - Blog Tue, 21 May 2013 13:12:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Nathan Pyatte http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-90 Nathan Pyatte Wed, 17 Aug 2011 03:19:50 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-90 When it comes down to it...without great strategy...content and design are nothing. When it comes down to it…without great strategy…content and design are nothing.

]]> By: Amanda Eyer http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-87 Amanda Eyer Tue, 16 Aug 2011 18:28:37 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-87 Awesome wisdom Jessica! We've found retrofitting content into finished design is a recipe for disaster--wherever the content comes from. Even if a timeline doesn't allow for finished, approved content to come before design is started--content templates that outline the main ideas, supporting info., and word counts do seem to help. And we can all do our part to keep our "delicate genius" egos from getting in the way of collaborative, kickass work. Think you've hit on a bigger issue that strikes a lot of marketing projects--a lack of content strategy. How can copywriting or design save the day when there has been no agreed upon strategy to start? Erin Kissane has a great book called The Elements of Content Strategy that addresses how content strategy should be part of every web project: http://www.abookapart.com/products/the-elements-of-content-strategy Awesome wisdom Jessica! We’ve found retrofitting content into finished design is a recipe for disaster–wherever the content comes from. Even if a timeline doesn’t allow for finished, approved content to come before design is started–content templates that outline the main ideas, supporting info., and word counts do seem to help. And we can all do our part to keep our “delicate genius” egos from getting in the way of collaborative, kickass work.

Think you’ve hit on a bigger issue that strikes a lot of marketing projects–a lack of content strategy. How can copywriting or design save the day when there has been no agreed upon strategy to start? Erin Kissane has a great book called The Elements of Content Strategy that addresses how content strategy should be part of every web project: http://www.abookapart.com/products/the-elements-of-content-strategy

]]> By: Jessica http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-85 Jessica Tue, 16 Aug 2011 16:35:23 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-85 Amen to all! I am so glad you guys are talking about this! It's the elephant in the room, but hopefully that's changing. As a copywriter, of course I have something to say about this. Both writers and designers are in the business of COMMUNICATING, so ideally, we are allies. This leads me to my first point - there needs to be more collaboration, from beginning to end (which you talk about here). This cannot be stressed enough. We are part of the same team, mutually inclusive, NOT mutually exclusive. Neither designers or writers are "delicate geniuses" who can't be bothered - this notion is antiquated and counter-productive (my pet peeve). We have a message to co-create by golly! This leaves little room for pretense or ego or eggshell walking. Also, I'm not sure what the consensus is on this, but I feel that content should come BEFORE design, but it's always been the other way around (at least in the places I've worked). It's backwards. Design, THEN content is counter intuitive to me and has been a top reason projects have derailed or gone over budget or timeline in my experience. Content is not an afterthought, but it is often treated as such. I notice clients sometimes view content as filler or website caulking to fill in the cracks with. Oh, it hurts to even write that. Changing this process might be like changing the tide, but it's worth looking at. If I had to change one thing about my job as a copywriter, I would like the work to be valued more and not taken for granted, not just internally, but by clients as well. Designers seem to get all the "ooohs and ahhhs," because of the immediate visual effect it has on people - which is well-deserved, but like Amanda said, please don’t dismiss/diminish the amount of time and thought it takes to create really good content and the power/impact that it has as well. Keep up the great work and the great discussions atLarge team! :) Amen to all! I am so glad you guys are talking about this! It’s the elephant in the room, but hopefully that’s changing. As a copywriter, of course I have something to say about this. Both writers and designers are in the business of COMMUNICATING, so ideally, we are allies. This leads me to my first point – there needs to be more collaboration, from beginning to end (which you talk about here). This cannot be stressed enough. We are part of the same team, mutually inclusive, NOT mutually exclusive. Neither designers or writers are “delicate geniuses” who can’t be bothered – this notion is antiquated and counter-productive (my pet peeve). We have a message to co-create by golly! This leaves little room for pretense or ego or eggshell walking.

Also, I’m not sure what the consensus is on this, but I feel that content should come BEFORE design, but it’s always been the other way around (at least in the places I’ve worked). It’s backwards. Design, THEN content is counter intuitive to me and has been a top reason projects have derailed or gone over budget or timeline in my experience. Content is not an afterthought, but it is often treated as such. I notice clients sometimes view content as filler or website caulking to fill in the cracks with. Oh, it hurts to even write that. Changing this process might be like changing the tide, but it’s worth looking at.

If I had to change one thing about my job as a copywriter, I would like the work to be valued more and not taken for granted, not just internally, but by clients as well. Designers seem to get all the “ooohs and ahhhs,” because of the immediate visual effect it has on people – which is well-deserved, but like Amanda said, please don’t dismiss/diminish the amount of time and thought it takes to create really good content and the power/impact that it has as well.

Keep up the great work and the great discussions atLarge team! :)

]]> By: Nathan Pyatte http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-83 Nathan Pyatte Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:02:06 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-83 Great read! It's the classic chicken or the egg conundrum. The simple thing to remember is that no one is right....no one in wrong. In my opinion it's all about communication and the willingness to let go of the things that we cling to in order to get our creative minds flowing. Now...this is not to say that I don't have my own flaws (ask any of my co-workers. But If we all go into these types of engagements knowing that we have to be open to the organic process...it helps to get to the heart of the project quicker without the common battle of who does what first. I do believe this is a key ingredient that helps the respective parties get moving forward to the next step and a better outcome. Great read! It’s the classic chicken or the egg conundrum. The simple thing to remember is that no one is right….no one in wrong.

In my opinion it’s all about communication and the willingness to let go of the things that we cling to in order to get our creative minds flowing. Now…this is not to say that I don’t have my own flaws (ask any of my co-workers. But If we all go into these types of engagements knowing that we have to be open to the organic process…it helps to get to the heart of the project quicker without the common battle of who does what first. I do believe this is a key ingredient that helps the respective parties get moving forward to the next step and a better outcome.

]]> By: Amanda Eyer http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-81 Amanda Eyer Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:39:20 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-81 Awesome comments:) Dechay--you're probably all over this but maybe Content Templates could help. There's a great post about them from A List Apart -- http://www.alistapart.com/articles/content-templates-to-the-rescue/ And amen to the ASAP deadlines Brian. Off with their heads;) Awesome comments:) Dechay–you’re probably all over this but maybe Content Templates could help. There’s a great post about them from A List Apart — http://www.alistapart.com/articles/content-templates-to-the-rescue/

And amen to the ASAP deadlines Brian. Off with their heads;)

]]> By: Dechay http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-80 Dechay Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:21:52 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-80 Great post. We do love designers because they do something we definitely cannot. We'd love them even more if they didn't create placeholder pages for about us, company, the firm, history, our team, and bios before showing the site nav to the client. Great post. We do love designers because they do something we definitely cannot. We’d love them even more if they didn’t create placeholder pages for about us, company, the firm, history, our team, and bios before showing the site nav to the client.

]]> By: ayelen http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-79 ayelen Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:04:45 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-79 Great writing as usual! and so many good tips about playing nice :) Great writing as usual! and so many good tips about playing nice :)

]]> By: Brian Keyrouze http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/2011/08/10/faceoff-designers-vs-copywriters/#comment-78 Brian Keyrouze Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:40:29 +0000 http://www.atlargeinc.com/blog/?p=3542#comment-78 Something I think both sides can agree on is "ASAP is not a deadline". That is my biggest pet peeve! Something I think both sides can agree on is “ASAP is not a deadline”. That is my biggest pet peeve!

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